[LRUG] My experience of Rails job hunting in London (so far!!)

[James Adam]

Hi Anthony,

I'm sorry to hear you've not been having a great experience job hunting in London.

Unfortunately, I think companies failing to respond is just a sad fact of life; like individual people, sometimes companies aren't as good at following up as we might hope. I think you're doing the right thing by chasing them directly; as long as you're getting back in contact in a pleasant and respectful manner, it won't be a problem and they'll probably appreciate the reminder.

With regards to pairing, I think there are a few things that could be done in future situations to make it easier for you.

Firstly, ask about the format of the interview before you arrive. This will give you a chance to prepare yourself mentally.

Secondly, if they're going to expect you to do any example programming at all, bring your own laptop, ready to go with your editor and environment. This will allow you to demonstrate that while your choice of tools might be different this has no bearing on your competency.

If they want you to pair on some software that it's not reasonable for you to have on your own laptop, I'm afraid you may inevitably need to use editors and keyboards that are unfamiliar. In these situations, I find that as long as you are calm and vocal about what you are thinking and what you're trying to achieve, the interviewers will be able to evaluate your skills with reasonable success. What I mean is talking about the higher level code transformations you are attempting -- "OK, I'm going to move that method into the Blah module, and then we'll write a test for the ABC behaviour" is worth far more than knowing the right key-combo incantations for Editor X

I'm afraid that I suspect a lot of good companies are going to want to do some sort of pairing exercise with you if you get sufficiently far in their process. The only way to really evaluate a programmer is to watch them work through a programming problem and demonstrate their approach.

Remember - pairing is really just discussing what you are doing. It might feel like there's someone looking over your shoulder, but what they are really looking for is an insight into your thinking. Your mouth should be moving a lot more than your fingers!

I'm relatively experienced at pairing but my typing *always* gets worse when I'm sat with someone I know very well, let alone an interview situation! Just try and engage with whatever problem you're being presented in an active, thoughtful and vocal way, and you'll do fine.

Hopefully simply being forewarned and forearmed will help mitigate some of the discomfort you experienced.

All the best!

- James

On 27 Nov 2012, at 12:48, Anthony Gardner <notantspants at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sept 16th: I sent an initial email to LRUG looking for advice on how to go about looking for a job (which agencies etc.) as I am currently living in Holland but will be returning to the UK. I had a great response and made contact with a few companies that interested me.
> 
> First company: after a few emails, I was waiting for a response to an email when I finally chased them up as to whether they had received it. They eventually got back to me and explained they had already filled the position and apologised for not getting back to me and leaving me waiting. For leaving me waiting, they said "[they] know it's really annoying when companies do that!"
> 
> Little did I know what was in store for me in the coming months with regard to being left waiting.
> 
> Second company: After making contact with them from Holland, we agreed to meet when I was over in London. We finally met for a coffee close to the City and had an hour long chat but I never heard anything back from them.
> 
> Third company: After making contact with them from Holland, we agreed to meet when I was over in London. We finally met for a coffee close to the City and after an hour long chat, he asked me to send them some code examples and they would arrange for me to do a remote test where they could monitor how I work. I sent them some code examples the next day and heard nothing more from them.
> 
> Fourth company: After making contact with them from Holland, they asked me to do a remote test. Based on the result of that test, we had an informal telephone interview and based on that, they asked me to come to their offices for a face-to-face.
> 
> I arrived on time for the interview and that was a s good as it got. I was walked into an office by the guy who finally came to get me from reception, and there was a laptop on the table and another guy standing next to it.
> 
> I was told that I was at the computer and that we were going to add to the program I had sent them a month earlier. I was sandwiched between these two guys and doing my first ever pair programming, using my first ever Mac, and using Text Mate for the first time.
> 
> To say it was a complete and utter disaster would be an understatement. Not only could I not use the keyboard, the test coverage I sent them only covered the bits they were specific about in the test. I deleted all other tests which I would now need!! After 30mins of me faffing around, and trembling, and a blank mind and a total bag of nerves, we decided to call it a day. They offered to reschedule the interview but I said to them that if they wanted to email me tomorrow with a thanks but no thanks, then I was happy with that. They sent me the Thanks but no thanks email and I was okay with that.
> 
> Surely putting people at ease is an important aspect of interviews. Drinking a coffee, show them around a bit, explain what the next 2 hours would have in store, chew the fat, get to know each other. But no, let's sandwich this guy on a computer and get him working. I don't want to work for a company that does that.
> 
> First agency: After talking to this agency that specialises in Ruby work, I heard a lot of "cool" and "awesome" but nothing else. He said he would send me some jobs through and even after I chased him up, I heard nothing back.
> 
> Second agency: After talking to this agency that specialises in Ruby work, I sent him my CV only to be told it "was corrupt and unreadable" and that he couldn't open it. I had to convert my "corrupt" ODT file to a MS Doc file.
> 
> He did put me forward for a top job which I knew was totally out of my league but fortunately it never came off as they had filled the position. But I didn't hear anything else from him. And still haven't.
> 
> So LRUGers, I have some questions for you. Firstly, is it normal for companies not to get back to you. I was severely disappointed with that behaviour.
> 
> Pair programming: I am totally upfront with my experience with Rails and the fact that I haven't used it in industry, so no pair programming experience for me. What am I to do if companies insist on a pair programming exercise or just looking over my shoulder while I code. That really would not bring out the best of me as I would be a bag of nerves. Particularly after my first experience of doing that in an interview environment.
> 
> I think pair programming sounds like a good idea but for a test interview, it wouldn't suit me. I would really have to feel comfortable and know the people I'm doing it with.
> 
> What tips can you give me for finding the right job?
> 
> I have since been offered a job here in Holland but I have turned it down as I am returning to the UK in December - even though I don't have a job. So I am employable and I will renew my efforts in the New Year. But if it's more of the same, then I'm not hopeful for the future.
> 
> -Anthony
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