<html><head><base href="x-msg://213/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Alan<div><br></div><div>We're really not doing this for cost reasons - I'd much rather pay a market salary to a UK developer who can sit next to me - but there just aren't the candidates for permanent roles at the moment. </div><div><br></div><div>I guess the popularity of Rails is outstripping supply, but as it's an easy framework to learn, I know what I'd be doing in my spare time if I were a student :)</div><div><br></div><div>Rob<br>
<br></div><div><br><div><div>On 5 Jan 2012, at 10:32, Alan Buxton wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Hi Rob (and LRUG)<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I spoke to the c42.in guys a while ago. Very impressive and said all the right things (e.g. all their work was BDD and pair programmed, not negotiable).<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I would say don't go offshore purely from a cost point of view - esp once you factor in things like timezone differences, communication overheads, R&D tax credits etc you won’t save much money.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Having said all this I tend to look at Eastern Europe for my outsourcing needs and right now am working with a couple of teams out that way. One of those teams in particular is from a company that was born out of some offshoring work for a big bank. Happy to talk further and put you in touch if you want.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I won't be at LRUG on Monday unfortunately (big release to get finished and out by then). But do drop me a line off-list if you want any intros.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">a<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stevie Graham<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>05 January 2012 10:18<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>London Ruby Users Group<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [LRUG] Outsourcing<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">yea i remember those guys. they mentioned they were over-subscribed at the time, but i recommend reaching out to them, you can find them at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://c42.in/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://c42.in/</a><o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Monaco, serif; color: black; "><br>Stevie Graham (@stevegraham)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Monaco, serif; color: black; ">git.io/sg<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Monaco, serif; color: black; ">Developer Evangelist<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Monaco, serif; color: black; ">Twilio, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Monaco, serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Monaco, serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On 5 Jan 2012, at 10:12, Mark Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I met some guys from an Indian firm that have a relationship with Engine Yard at RubyConf last year. Seemed to be saying and doing all the right things and seemed to have a good reputation. I'll try and dig out their details and get back to you. <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On 5 January 2012 09:51, Rob Anderson <<a href="mailto:rob.anderson@paymentcardsolutions.co.uk" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">rob.anderson@paymentcardsolutions.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Hello LRUG<br><br>We've been trying to recruit for a permanent Rails position for a while now, and it isn't going well. Judging from the number of job posts on this board, we're not alone in this.<br><br>So, very reluctantly, I'm considering outsourcing the role, probably to India. Does anyone have any experience with this / advice to offer?<br><br>Our constraints:<br><br>- we're a financial services company, so trust is a big issue<br>- we have a large and expanding code base, so there is an upfront investment in time before anyone can really contribute properly. So we're looking for a long term relationship.<br><br>I'll be at the LRUG meeting on Monday - look forward to seeing you all there.<br><br>Rob<br><br>PS We've taken a long hard look at the recruitment agency route, and it's not for us. So please, don't contact me if you are recruiter. Thanks!<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Chat@lists.lrug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Chat@lists.lrug.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">_______________________________________________<br>Chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Chat@lists.lrug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Chat@lists.lrug.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Chat@lists.lrug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Chat@lists.lrug.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>