For what it's worth I got in touch with Matthew and gave him some feedback about his job posting being vague and useless. He said he'll incorporate that feedback into any future postings, so we'll see.<div><br>
</div><div>Muz<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 March 2012 15:29, Roland Swingler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roland.swingler@gmail.com" target="_blank">roland.swingler@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I don't want to filter out all job postings, only meaningless ones like the one in this thread. And I'm not specifically against recruiters either, for example Steve Buckley's email in January <a href="http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2012-January/006798.html" target="_blank">http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2012-January/006798.html</a> gave me a good idea of what domain the company was working in, the sort of work you might be doing and sounded like it came from a human being.<div>
<br></div><div>I just want to stop vague descriptions before the trickle becomes a deluge.</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">R</font></span><div>
<div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Max Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:toastkid.williams@gmail.com" target="_blank">toastkid.williams@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That seems overly anti-recruiter. They're easy enough to ignore if you're not interested - that's why the JOBS tag was adopted.<div>
<div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 March 2012 15:19, Paul Doerwald <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul@liquidmedia.ca" target="_blank">paul@liquidmedia.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Maybe that says something about your actual value. Perhaps there is no value to posting/reposting a job advertisement in a mailing list. Perhaps your real value is in directly pursuing potential candidates.
</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Paul.</div>
<div><div><br></div>-- <br>Paul Doerwald<br>Chancellor<div>Liquid Media Inc.</div><div><a href="tel:902-412-2492" value="+19024122492" target="_blank">902-412-2492</a></div><div><br></div></div></font></span><div>
<div>
<p style="color:#a0a0a8">On Monday, 12 March, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Anna Burchfiel wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-style:solid;border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px">
<span><div><div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Exactly. As a recruitment consultant, I won’t post the company I’m working with unless I am working exclusively on a role, because if someone applies directly to them I get nothing for passing on the information about it and having them get the job. Perhaps we could come to some sort of gentlemen’s agreement of giving the company name in the first instance someone contacts you, since you would then already have their details to confirm your interaction with them?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Just a thought. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Anna Burchfiel</span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Consultant<br>
</span><b><span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Volt </span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><br></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">85 Gracechurch Street, London EC3V 0AA, United Kingdom</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#ff9900">ddi: </span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20648%204806" value="+442076484806" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 648 4806</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#ff9900">tel: </span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20648%204800" value="+442076484800" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 648 4800</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#ff9900">fax: </span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201737%20772949" value="+441737772949" target="_blank">+44 (0) 1737 772949</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#ff9900">email: </span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="http://Anna.Burchfiel@VoltEurope.com" title="Anna.Burchfiel@VoltEurope.com" target="_blank">Anna.Burchfiel@VoltEurope.com</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#ff9900">web:</span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.volteurope.com" target="_blank">www.volteurope.com</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td></tr><tr><td width="50" style="width:37.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#ff9900">search: </span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="http://jobs.volteurope.com/" title="http://jobs.volteurope.com/" target="_blank">jobs.volteurope.com</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td></tr></tbody></table></div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="color:#1f497d"><br></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><img border="0" width="400" height="83" alt="http://www.volteurope.com/images/awards/APSCo_2011_email_logo_UK.gif"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org" target="_blank">chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org</a> [<a href="mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org" target="_blank">mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Blomfield<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 12 March 2012 15:13<br><b>To:</b> London Ruby Users Group<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [LRUG] [JOBS] Ruby on Rails Developer - 6month contract - STARTING ASAP<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">I had the same thought a couple of weeks ago, and it is a lot of fun...<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">I'm just a little concerned that we're just encouraging recruiters to post even vaguer descriptions....<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">-- <br>Tom Blomfield<br><a href="tel:%2B44%207767%20484619" value="+447767484619" target="_blank">+44 7767 484619</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><a href="http://gocardless.com" target="_blank">gocardless.com</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><p><span style="color:#a0a0a8">On Monday, 12 March 2012 at 15:09, Sam Phillips wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
I was wondering only this morning if we could address this by guessing<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">the name of the company when an advert came through. I know at least<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">60% of the time who it is, and if the convention was to reveal the<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
name, maybe recruiters would learn(!) to not post ads without company<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">names?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">Sam<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">On 12 March 2012 15:03, Roland Swingler <<a href="mailto:roland.swingler@gmail.com" target="_blank">roland.swingler@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">At the risk of opening this can of worms again, can we not do<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">something about these vague recruiter job descriptions? They seem to<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
be more prevalent over the past month or so. The previous discussion<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">seemed to be heavily biased against having recruiters post at all; the<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">posting guidelines (<a href="http://lrug.org/posting-jobs" target="_blank">http://lrug.org/posting-jobs</a>) seem pretty clear<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">about not posting job adverts like the one below, which tell me<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
absolutely nothing about the company.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
My vote would be a warning followed by banning from the list for<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">people who blatantly ignore these guidelines if this is not too much<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">work to administer. To be clear, I'm not against job postings, I'm<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
against postings like the one below.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
Thoughts?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
Roland<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Matthew Geppert <<a href="mailto:matt@osrecruit.com" target="_blank">matt@osrecruit.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">I'm in urgent need of Ruby on Rails contractors to work a minimum of 6months<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
starting ASAP - The daily rate is dependant on experience.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
This company is passionate about their products and the evolving<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">technologies they use to build them. As a ruby on rails Developer you will<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">need to share their passion for craftsmanship in software design and<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
development and continuous improvement in the techniques, tools and<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">languages they use; as well as have an appreciation for business objectives<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">and delivering superior, innovative software solutions.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">Essential Skills:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">* Ruby on Rails<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
* Strong Object Oriented design skills<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">* Previous experience with test-driven development, automated testing<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">frameworks and related tools such as JUnit, RSpec, Cucumber, JBehave,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
Selenium and JMock<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">* Proven experience working with Continuous Integration and Revision Control<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">systems such as Bamboo, Hudson and CruiseControl and Subversion, git or CVS<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
* Strong interpersonal and relationship building skills within an Agile<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">project teams<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
* Ability to understand a technology problem in light of a broader product<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">vision<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">If you are interested or need further information, please send me an email<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
with your CV, github URL's and blog address now for an immediate response -<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">all conversations are strictly confidential.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">I hope to hear from you soon.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">Matthew Geppert<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">mail: <a href="mailto:matt@osrecruit.com" target="_blank">matt@osrecruit.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
web: <a href="http://www.osrecruit.com" target="_blank">www.osrecruit.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201992%20565%20627" value="+441992565627" target="_blank">+44 (0) 1992 565 627</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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