<div dir="ltr">> <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">you can't really teach anybody anything ... </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">You're on your own.</span><div>
<br class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I understand where you're coming from on this, but I strongly disagree.</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The fact that I think many people relate to this sort of pain means you're definitely not "on your own".</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I feels like you're confusing the fact that it is (a) teaching at this non-intermediate level is several orders of magnitude harder and (b) that it may not be relevant to everyone, with the fact that it can't and shouldn't be attempted.</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>In terms of feedback around this sort of talk, what I'd be looking for is zero introduction into why you're doing this or the 'theoretical' side of things, unless actually new (which, tbh I'd guess you're probably not going to come up with). Assume I've read every blog post and watched every previous presentation on this subject. If you can come up with something distinct and valuable from your own experience - "I've now done this five times, here is how it has worked out for me" and shaping it into a cohesive talk then I'd definitely be interested in hearing it. The problem is that coming up with this sort of talk may take about 6-8 months preparation, and not many people are willing to put in that much effort (understandably!)</div>
<div><br></div><div>My 2c</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>R</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Mark Burns <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:markthedeveloper@gmail.com" target="_blank">markthedeveloper@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Thanks Paul,<div><br></div><div>It's a good point, you're right. It's difficult to sketch out exactly how much information to convey and at what level to pitch it at.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I like the siren call idea. If you see pattern A, you might want to try solution B.</div>
<div>Solution D is also relevant, but maybe not until you start to get C happening.</div><div><br></div><div>It would be good to express a few examples of well known maxims/idioms and what issues these solve. Along with situations where they may not be appropriate.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Maybe with examples simple enough that anyone can imagine the progression through into larger and more complex systems, even if they haven't experienced that progression first-hand. </div><div><br>
</div><div>Basically, I can't teach you Thai, Vietnamese or Japanese, but I could help you learn to spot the differences between them. You can learn a few greetings and recognize them when confronting them, but you're going to need to do some self study to learn anything of value, and you'll need to live there to be fluent.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think I'd probably want to focus more on aspects of moving away from monoliths if focusing on anything. Especially as that probably sounds closer to that title.</div><div> </div><div><br></div><div>
<br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 28 October 2013 22:37, Paul Robinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul@32moves.com" target="_blank">paul@32moves.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On 28 Oct 2013, at 17:22, Mark Burns <<a href="mailto:markthedeveloper@gmail.com" target="_blank">markthedeveloper@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div><div>> I've been brewing the idea of talking about moving from Rails apps of the<br>
> scale of 15 minutes blog post through monoliths into services, with a view to separating completely and maybe replacing components (with eek, dare I suggest, maybe non-ruby components) with messaging and queues and the like.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>The problem with this as a talk is that you can't really teach anybody anything. Not because you can't teach anything, but because people only learn what is relevant to them, and it's probably impossible to structure a talk that is relevant to lots of people who are at this point in their app's life cycle.<br>
<br>
If I want to teach you how to use Rails to build a blog, well, OK, I can do that. I can give you Railscasts that show you how to use gems and how to do certain things. That's easy.<br>
<br>
And then you get to a point where you're on your own. You have to go back to the theory and the abstract stuff floating around in the community and look carefully at the problem domain and figure it out by thinking it through.<br>
<br>
Nobody can help you. You're on your own.<br>
<br>
So whilst your talk would perhaps be interesting and act as a siren call to those who are about to hit those problems that O'Reilly and Pragprog.com aint going to be able to help them out much for much longer, what they would expect from such a talk might only actually be given via a few weeks consultancy.<br>
<br>
I'm not trying to say don't do it, I'm saying reduce the scope a little if you want to make it a talk.<br>
<br>
And if you're not convinced, I'm happy to shoot the breeze about these ideas and others. I'm a CTO, have been a CTO, and consulted as a CTO after many years of working as a straight-up developer. The horror stories I could tell you about the exact moment we're talking about here... oh boy...<br>
<div><div>_______________________________________________<br>
Chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Chat@lists.lrug.org" target="_blank">Chat@lists.lrug.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org" target="_blank">http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Chat@lists.lrug.org">Chat@lists.lrug.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org" target="_blank">http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>