<div dir="ltr">My brief 2p as I'm a bit snowed atm (but happy to have a call with anyone seriously going down this route):<div><br></div><div>Never had a client request it, fairly sure it'd be a hard sell unless the client already knew you and respected your work and working methods enough to trust you bringing a junior onto their code if they wanted a (senior) dive-straight-in contractor. Also, I know we know the benefits that they might reap, but to them it's taking on someone that you're training on their time, extra liability and potentially you adding a mark up on (whether you actually are or not).</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think it could work with the right client relationship, but could most likely be be a can of worms from a liability point of view. Is that person contracted by the company, or by you? And if you, you'll need to get specialist insurance which can be rather spendy. If by them, do they have capacity to support any potential errors/fixes?</div>
<div><br></div><div>HOWEVER, on a more positive note, I've seen this model work well in an agency I know, where they always send out teams in multiples of two, and at least one of the pairs is always a junior who's learning and picking off the lower hanging fruit. But that's an agency model where people have been brought in to complete whole projects (or offsite) rather than being thrown onto something to try and make it happen faster and/or on time or because not enough perm resource.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Let us know how it goes if you do it though, be interested to hear.</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Jasim A Basheer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jasim.ab@gmail.com" target="_blank">jasim.ab@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Tim,</div><div><br></div>I'm a developer-partner at Nilenso Software (<a href="http://nilenso.com/" target="_blank">http://nilenso.com/</a>). We are an employee-owned software co-operative based out of Bangalore, India. Most of our work is remote and our team sizes are almost always even numbered.<div>
<br></div><div>Before we start an engagement with a client, we make it explicit that we pair program, do TDD, and follow agile. We charge a blended rate for our pairs - this accounts for the difference in experience level. We don't have to sell pairing to clients who have previous experience in an agile/extreme environment since they already understand the value it brings.</div>
<div><div><br></div><div>One of our recent work was a rescue project - the codebase was a ball of mud, the devs who built it thought writing tests was a waste of time, and the lack of any kind of encapsulation was described to be 'functional'. We had to rebuild the entire system from scratch after a failed and costly attempt at reusing the existing codebase. Having learned about the importance of code quality through an expensive experience, this client was particularly happy about the XP practices that we followed.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We haven't had much difficulty even with clients who have little prior experience building software for the web. Most of our work comes from one happy client referring another. This ensures that there is a fair amount of trust in the relationship that we will do the right thing for their business. </div>
<div><br></div><div>As to our pairing practice, we pair when it makes sense (which is most of the time). We also use our judgement to solo on things that are either rote work, or complex spikes where it is better to think independently and discuss later. Most of this is transparent to the client, but is never made a big deal out of. </div>
<div><br></div><div>It also helps that we discuss our velocity frequently with the client so that they have a sense of the progress we are making. They also appreciate the fact that at least two people who share the same context are involved during discussions. Everyone is happy as long as we are delivering value and it should be apparent to the client in a couple of iterations.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However as Louis mentioned, we work mostly with startups who are already happy to do remote. Our experience might not be representative of conventional organisations with outdated people policies.</div>
<div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Louis Goff-Beardsley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:louisror@gmail.com" target="_blank">louisror@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div lang="EN-GB" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div><p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">From a recruitment perspective I’d say in 2013 around 20% of the contract requirements I’ve had were from companies which would be open to at least discussing this..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I’m not sure if you could negotiate a day rate for both developers high enough to make it worthwhile until you’ve proved that its more effective than one remote developer. Might have to take a bit of a hit in the first couple of contracts until the junior developer is productive.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The companies which would go for this are open minded teams which don’t have a problem with remote workers, more established teams which typically hire through HR departments and look for onsite developers are going to take issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In the last year I have had success in hiring pairs of developers into companies, although in both cases it was pairs of senior remote developers who had long histories of working together.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Might be companies are interested in this for hiring senior perm remote developers with a junior pair located near to them (rather than contract, as its more of an investment for the company).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Merry Christmas.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Louis Goff-Beardsley<u></u><u></u></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“You know I'm not a fan of recruitment consultants, right? @LouisRoR is good. You should talk to him if you're looking for Ruby work or staff” </span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="https://twitter.com/p7r/status/291537402084864001" target="_blank"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue">Paul Robinson – Senior Ruby-on-Rails Developer & CTO - @P7R</span></i></a></span><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://goo.gl/WvuTj" target="_blank"><span style="color:white">http://goo.gl/WvuTj</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:white"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse"><tbody><tr style="height:224.6pt"><td width="670" valign="top" style="width:502.85pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;background:black;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;height:224.6pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white">[Louis Goff-Beardsley]</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > Ultra-Specialised Independent Ruby-on-Rails Recruitment.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > Software Sales, Business Development & AC Acquisition for the RoR community.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > LinkedIn: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/louisbeardsley" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white">http://www.linkedin.com/in/louisbeardsley</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > Skype: LouisGB1 - Googletalk/Jabba: </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"><a href="mailto:LouisRoR@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:white">LouisRoR@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > Email: </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"><a href="mailto:LouisRoR@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:white">LouisRoR@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > Mobile: 07449 324 851 ¦ Land Line: 01183 xxx xxx<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"> > Twitter:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="https://twitter.com/#!/LouisRoR" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white">@LouisRoR</span></a> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">– Below is ASCII Art that will go totally wrong in plain text :(</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white">__________ __ __ __________ <u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white">\______ \_____ |__| | ______ \______ \ ____ ____ <u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white"> | _/\__ \ | | | / ___/ | _// __ \_/ ___\ <u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white"> | | \ / __ \| | |__\___ \ | | \ ___/\ \___ <u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white"> |____|_ /(____ /__|____/____ > |____|_ /\___ >\___ ><u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white"> \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ <u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:white"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:white">IRC: LouisRoR - <a href="http://irc.freenode.org" target="_blank">irc.freenode.org</a> #LRUG, #NWRUG, #ruby, #rubyonrails<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="118" height="23" src="cid:image001.gif@01CEFBE8.6ED8CED0" alt="Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: http://download.skype.com/share/skypebuttons/buttons/add_green_transparent_118x23.gif"></span></a><a href="https://twitter.com/#!/LouisRoR" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="88" height="20" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CEFBE8.6ED8CED0" alt="Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/louis.beardsley/Desktop/LouisRoRTag.JPG"></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“I was speaking to [Senior Ruby Developer] recently about a variety of things and he mentioned your name. In fact he recommended you as a recruiter. *Actually* recommended too, not as in "he's not as evil as the rest", but as in "you really should speak to this guy first"”</span></i><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"">This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. This email (and any attachment) may be confidential and legally privileged. Access and/or use by others is unauthorised and may be unlawful. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. Contents of this email should not be disseminated, distributed or copied.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org" target="_blank">chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org" target="_blank">chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Cowlishaw<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 17 December 2013 12:20<br><b>To:</b> Ruby Group<br><b>Subject:</b> [LRUG] Hiring a pair rather than an individual contractor<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Inspired by Ali's 'Technical Intern' job ad, I've got a few questions for those of you who hire independent contract engineers!<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Some context: I've thought a great deal about stsarting an initiative like Ali's, whereby I take on a more junior engineer to pair with me on contract work. Being a freelancer is an insane privilege, and I've thought it'd be a great opportunity to both help train people starting out on a career in software, as well as encouraging more people to work independently who might not otherwise consider it, or have the opportunity to do so.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">With that in mind, I'd be very interested to know, from those of you who hire contractors, whether:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">(1) You'd be open to the idea of hiring a mixed-ability pair in place of an individual engineer? Would such an arrangement work within the structure of your organization?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">(2) You'd perceive this is an arrangement with potential productivity gains (or just as a deadweight loss since the more experienced engineer would spend some time coaching the less experienced one). What sort of multiplier would you be prepared to attach to the cost of a single engineer for such an arrangement?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<br><br>Tim.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><div class="im">_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div>Best,</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div dir="ltr">Jasim A Basheer -- <a href="http://nilenso.com" target="_blank">http://nilenso.com</a></div>
<div dir="ltr"><a href="http://twitter.com/jasim_ab" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/jasim_ab</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Thayer Prime<br>--------------------<br>CEO & Founder<br>Team Prime Ltd<br><a href="http://www.team-prime.com" target="_blank">http://www.team-prime.com</a><br>
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