<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 21 May 2014 21:01, Ed Lepedus <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ed.lepedus@googlemail.com" target="_blank">ed.lepedus@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Firstly, the word 'junior' has been thrown about so much as to be utterly meaningless. The difference between a keen amateur, someone who has a couple of years experience but just 'fell into it', a CS graduate who just scraped a 2:1 and a top-of-class 2nd year undergraduate is HUGE. Yet they all fall into the same category.</blockquote>
</div><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Actually, it's not just junior that means nothing. I'm guilty of using "senior", but somebody who has spent 7 years working for agencies developing microsites for TV production companies (surprisingly common in some parts of the industry), has had a completely different experience to somebody who spent 7 years as a quant developer for Goldman Sachs. They might understand advanced topics as thoroughly as each other, but putting them into a real world production project, you will quickly identify very different strengths and weaknesses.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">One of the best programmers I've worked with has been under 20, never set foot in a University and entirely self-taught. One of the worst had a PhD in CS, 10+ years experience and was very well-read professionally. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">That said, I've worked with so many developers over the years it's not unreasonable to think that I have encountered programmers who are several standard deviations away from the mean for their age, experience, etc. on both sides.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">And I measure developers not just in terms of the ability to produce code, but in their ability to communicate, plan, estimate, work with others, anticipate change, etc.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I think ultimately what this thread has been trying to identify the core problem as, is that these job titles don't mean anything. </div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">They are the artefacts of recruitment practices almost unchanged for several hundred years: give the job a title that indicates where somebody sits in a hierarchy, list some skills and how much experience they should have of each and a short job description you hope compels "the right person" applies. Then get frustrated with numerous applications from people who are completely unsuitable, and spend a large amount of money on a specialist who reads CVs for you. :-)</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I'd argue that as an industry we need to get a little smarter about how we think about recruitment, and stop thinking about resources and more about people.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">This thread started by Thayer offering introductions to people knocking around looking for experience (let's call them "inexperienced" instead of "junior"). </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">There have been valid points raised about the problems inherent in taking on such developers, but rather than saying "well, this person has 6 months or less experience so is going to be expensive to take on in terms of mentoring", how about you say "I have budget for a 6-month internship at £25k/year to get somebody on the ladder, and I have this project I've wanted somebody to have time to work on that would take me 2 months... let's see if I can find somebody self-driven and I'll throw that at them".</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Allocate a couple of hours a week for review/mentorship. Do not leave them stranded, but make it clear this is a self-paced programme - they need to understand development is about learning every single day, so they need to learn how to do that whilst hitting their estimates.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">You don't need to be a big company or have lots of time to spend on mentoring to make that work. You need a project that is low priority you're prepared to assign a small amount of budget to. Think of the cost of hiring them as a possible recruitment fee: you might find somebody you want to keep on and get working on other tasks. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">If you don't, well you've provided some valuable experience that might get their career started elsewhere. The industry is broad. Not everybody suits working for a RoR startup, but that doesn't make them a bad developer.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I know I'll be in touch on the other side of the next quarter, I hope others try and find a way to get more young people into the industry with real world experience too.</div>
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