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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Relevant talk I found to be worthwhile at the 2014 Scottish Ruby Conference:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://programme2014.scottishrubyconference.com/proposals/128/video">http://programme2014.scottishrubyconference.com/proposals/128/video</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Chat [mailto:chat-bounces@lists.lrug.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matthew O'Riordan<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 3, 2014 10:56 PM<br><b>To:</b> Louis Goff-Beardsley<br><b>Cc:</b> chat@lists.lrug.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [LRUG] Rails / Web óutsourcing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Louis<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the reply, I had no idea that óutsourcing has become an evil word ;)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If we could find an individual who is capable and remote I’d be more than willing to go down that route. Managing the team is not an issue at all, in fact I’d almost prefer to not have the indirection of project managers if at all possible. Any advice on how to go down that route of finding remote developers on a contract to perm basis?<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Matthew O'Riordan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 1 Nov 2014, at 10:36, Louis Goff-Beardsley <<a href="mailto:louis@infinitiumglobal.com">louis@infinitiumglobal.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just found this in my Junk mail folder, looks like óutsourcing is a filtered term.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Unless the project is too small to bother with, instead of hiring an outsourcing company you can save yourself a ton of money and get quality development done by just hiring remote developers yourself. Outsourcing companies markup on developer time is usually double what they are paying the developers, you can use the same money and hire the developers directly, thus enabling you to hire more senior developers for your money. Alternatively you can hire EU based people that can visit regularly, rather than non-eu based people you’ll never meet IRL.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If what you need doing is going to take more than one developer and you’re worried about managing people and that’s why you’re going to an outsourcing company you can get around this by making your first hire an experienced hands-on tech lead who’s well used to managing other remote developers.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If its short term, most remote developers are happy with fixed term contracts or ad hoc day-rates, you don’t have to commit to hiring them continuously.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you’re using outsourcing long term (as a solution because you’re struggling to hire in London) you might as well hire remote developers directly and make them feel invested rather than just shipping code for an offshore consultancy.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The only drawback is that you’ve got to take ownership of interviewing, but you’d probably have to invest the same effort into vetting outsourcing companies, plus if the first person you hire is good, they’ll handle it for you in the future.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best, Louis.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Matthew O'Riordan <<a href="mailto:matthew.oriordan@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>matthew.oriordan@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi all<br><br>I have a Rails website we've been developing for some time with a partner in Hong Kong, however they are now unable to finish the project due to their workload.<br><br>Whilst the distance has not been an issue to date, I think the time zone gap has been a bit problematic. As such, I am now considering using a Ruby/Rails development team / agency somewhere in Europe to both finish and continue to maintain the website. Clearly there are cost advantages doing this work outside of the UK and I'd like to explore that whilst I still have the time to do so. I have outsourced project work numerous times for other technology stacks and I have had mixed results, with some great successes and some unfortunate Dodos.<br><br>Have any of you LRUGers worked with any Rails teams outside of the UK and in Europe that you could recommend? To be clear, I am not willing to compromise quality for cost, so am only looking for capable developers.<br><br>Thanks for any help you can offer.<br><br>Regards,<br>Matthew<br><br><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/lemon" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://linkedin.com/in/lemon</span></a><br><br>Sent from my phone<br>_______________________________________________<br>Chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Chat@lists.lrug.org"><span style='color:purple'>Chat@lists.lrug.org</span></a><br>Archives:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org</span></a><br>Manage your subscription:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/options.cgi/chat-lrug.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.lrug.org/options.cgi/chat-lrug.org</span></a><br>List info:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.lrug.org/listinfo.cgi/chat-lrug.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com/"><span style='color:purple'>www.avg.com</span></a><br>Version: 2015.0.5557 / Virus Database: 4181/8490 - Release Date: 11/01/14<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>