<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I think it really does depend on what is meant by 'proficient' & at what level they are at rails. I'm a jr dev who trained in both ruby & rails but have probably used more rails (albeit still not that much) professionally. I understand things like inheritance & certain ruby methods however, it rarely comes into play at my level. Also, like Ben said, the appeal of rails is that it's easy to grasp very quickly so for someone like me coming from a non-tech background, that's useful. However, I don't think that means one shouldn't also try to understand ruby. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Kindly,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Lola <br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On 6 Jul 2016, at 15:52, Ben Lovell <<a href="mailto:benjamin.lovell@gmail.com">benjamin.lovell@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 July 2016 at 15:32, Leonardo Saraiva <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vyper@maneh.org" target="_blank">vyper@maneh.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I see many people asking and using active record for search, persist... but does not know "nothing" about SQL.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I find this an absolutely fantastic enabler. It's great (to this humble guy, at least) that someone can come along with little-to-no programming knowledge - and with some basic guidance - build something meaningful with Rails and Ruby. This is just one reason why programmes such as RailsGirls are so successful in capturing the minds of newcomers to programming.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Jon Wood <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jon@ninjagiraffes.co.uk" target="_blank">jon@ninjagiraffes.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I can't speak to the mythical Rails developer who doesn't know Ruby, but I do have quite frequent frustrating conversations with my brother who hacks things together in C#. They tend to involve him complaining that some seemingly trivial problem is far to complex to solve, and invariably it turns out his approach of searching Stack Overflow for answers vaguely similar but never attempting to understand them means he doesn't understand the fundamentals. He's the C# equivalent of a Rails developer who can hook up models, but wouldn't even know that model classes can inherit from things other than ActiveRecord::Base, and in both cases its caused by not having the time and/or motivation to look into how things actually work.</div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 at 15:08 gvim <<a href="mailto:gvimrc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gvimrc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I hear of this a lot - the Rails dev who hardly knows Ruby and I'm left<br>
scratching my head. How on earth can anyone become proficient in a<br>
complex framework like Rails without understanding the language it's<br>
written in?<br>
<br>
Someone please enlighten me.<br>
<br>
gvim<br>
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