<div dir="ltr"><div>Since Sam is making popcorn... I'll add my 2 cents.</div><div><br></div><div>This is very common practice in the United States too. The pay in San Francisco is significantly higher than in other areas. The downside is cost of living is 10x more expensive. But I seriously doubt higher pay is an incentive to move to these areas... Instead, people are more likely to move to these areas because of jobs, opportunities, etc.. </div><div><br></div><div>The higher pay is a bit of consolation... they don't want their employees to be homeless after all. (Not even kidding.)</div><div><br></div><div>I actually find the reverse of this situation way more fascinating. There are cities/areas where the developer salary is x times higher then the cost of living. For example, I had a friend working in Raleigh North Carolina who was being paid $80,000 as a software developer and bought a house for $250,000. Compare this to San Francisco where you might make $150,000 but a house will cost $1.5million. </div><div><br></div><div>These areas are the real jewels in my humble opinion!</div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:00 PM Sam Livingston-Gray <<a href="mailto:geeksam@gmail.com">geeksam@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">[Ah, sorry, messages just arrived out of order. Carry on; I'll make popcorn.]<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 10:35 AM Sam Livingston-Gray <<a href="mailto:geeksam@gmail.com" target="_blank">geeksam@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>[This appears to be a reply to an off-list message, which seems questionable?]</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, a perspective from a few years back that I still find useful: <a href="https://ernie.io/2015/12/05/market-rate-is-for-lobsters/" target="_blank">https://ernie.io/2015/12/05/market-rate-is-for-lobsters/</a></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 10:21 AM Pablo Dejuan Calzolari <<a href="mailto:pablo.dejuan@gmail.com" target="_blank">pablo.dejuan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I would be careful with this path of reasoning, supporting the answer based on because other people do it, so it should be OK.<div>Sometimes the answer is just straight-forward, example because you can pay less. People in some areas to take up work for less than people in London because they may have less offers around. May not be about cost of living but about market expectations.<div>Regards,</div><div>Pablo</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 3:26 PM Ed James <<a href="mailto:ed.james.spam@gmail.com" target="_blank">ed.james.spam@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>It’s standard practice across a number of industries, at least in the UK.<div><br></div><div>Even the NHS do this: <a href="https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-reward/nhs-terms-and-conditions-of-service---agenda-for-change/pay-scales/including-hcas" target="_blank">https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-reward/nhs-terms-and-conditions-of-service---agenda-for-change/pay-scales/including-hcas</a><div><br><div>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 25 Mar 2021, at 13:20, Edmond Lepedus <<a href="mailto:ed.lepedus@googlemail.com" target="_blank">ed.lepedus@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div>Hi Rafik,<div><br></div><div>I don’t think it can be that, since other, more expensive cities aren’t singled out e.g. Zurich, New York, Tokyo etc, or even Oxford, Cambridge, Bath etc where some areas are more expensive than parts of London. </div><div><br></div><div>More importantly, paying people more just because they live in a more expensive area introduces perverse incentives to move to said areas and exacerbates the very problem it would seem to be tackling. It would also be discriminatory towards all sorts of people who, perhaps through no fault of their own e.g. family situation, economic circumstances etc aren’t able to live in the anointed region.</div><div><br></div><div>I’m sure an employer would like to recognise and reward people based on the value of their contributions, and allow them to make their own tradeoffs between location and cost of living.</div><div><br></div><div>What do you think?</div><div><br></div><div>Ed</div><div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 25 Mar 2021, at 12:32, Rafik DALI <<a href="mailto:rfkdali@gmail.com" target="_blank">rfkdali@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">Hi Edmond,<br><br>I think it's more about cost of life in London.<br><br>Best,<br>Rafik</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 25 mars 2021 à 12:06, Edmond Lepedus <<a href="mailto:ed.lepedus@googlemail.com" target="_blank">ed.lepedus@googlemail.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Olly,<div><br></div><div>It’s interesting that your salary structure includes a premium for people in London. Do you find they are more productive than developers elsewhere in the country/world?</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Ed<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 25 Mar 2021, at 09:04, Olly Headey <<a href="mailto:olly@freeagent.com" target="_blank">olly@freeagent.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small">p.s. I should have added. We're looking for mid-level people and above. Mid-level salaries go up to £50k (60k in inner London) and Senior-Staff salaries go up to £80k (£96k with inner London weighting, £92k for outer London). We do also have a Principal level which pays more but tbh that's a pretty high bar.</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small">Also: no recruiters plz.</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 09:01, Olly Headey <<a href="mailto:olly@freeagent.com" target="_blank">olly@freeagent.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small">Hi LRUG</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small">I haven't posted a job for a while, I hope you're all well 😊. We're creating a new, small team of Rails craftspeople, and I thought people here might be interested (or know people who are interested!). A bit of context first...</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small">FreeAgent is a Ruby on Rails application (running Rails 6.1, Ruby 3) that has been serving happy customers since 2007. We have 110,000+ customers. Over the years we have seen a number of approaches to our front-end code, from the early days of Prototype.js, through to jQuery, a bit of React once-upon-a-time and, latterly, Stimulus.<br></div><div style="font-size:small"><br>I believe the Rails front-end ecosystem has entered a new era of maturity and we want our new "Front-end Architecture" team to help us consolidate our front-end tech around modern Rails standards – ES6, Webpacker, Stimulus and Hotwire – while working closely with our Design System team on our home-grown design system, FreeStyle. <br><br>The team will focus on things like removing jQuery (in the first instance), while crafting our many views and controllers to take advantage of Turbo where it can help, write beautifully minimal Stimulus controllers (and, to be honest, removing all JS where possible!), writing semantic markup and helping to integrate new components from FreeStyle. <br><br>I think this is a rewarding role made for Rails craftspeople.</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small">If you're interested, please drop me a line (<a href="mailto:olly@freeagent.com" target="_blank">olly@freeagent.com</a>). Happy to chat! Thanks a lot :-)</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small">Olly</div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-size:small"><div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">-- </div><div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">Olly Headey<span> </span></div><div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">Co-founder and CTO, FreeAgent</div><div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue""><a href="https://twitter.com/lylo" target="_blank">@lylo</a></div><div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";min-height:15px"><br></div></div></div>
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