[LRUG] Outsourcing

[Rob Anderson]

Hello Stevie

See below

Rob


On 5 Jan 2012, at 14:06, Stevie Graham wrote:

> It's worth saying that I don't think there is a shortage of Ruby developers, just basic economics at play. It's a simple question of supply and demand. The vast majority of the quality developers I know are on the contract market because there seems to be a glass ceiling in the perm market in terms of salary expectations. Good developers can literally earn double quite easily as soon as they transition from perm to contractor, and have the tax benefits of a LTD company setup. 

Sure.  I was a contractor myself for many years, and I understand the pros and cons. But we are looking for someone perm, and I guess the demand for Rails makes this harder to achieve.

> 
> I don't think Rails is particularly easy to learn, easy enough that a student may learn it in their spare time and be as credible as an experienced developer. Also, I think it kind of denigrates our craft to suggest that. A lot of us have stories of landing a gig and turning up on the first day to be presented with an egregiously shit codebase. If it's that easy, this wouldn't happen and as a corollary this thread also wouldn't exist because of the abundance of Rails developers looking for work because everyone's at it! It's so easy to learn! 

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here.  I think Ruby is easy (even pleasant) to learn as a language, and even easier to cross-train to if you have experience in other languages.  So if I were a graduating IT student with some java, I might well be seduced by the delights of Rails, given the demand in the market place, and we would be willing to train up a bright student who has done what they can to teach themselves.

Of course, this is not to denigrate your own hard-won skills - mastery of anything is difficult.  But Rails certainly has lower barriers to entry than, for example, SAP.

> 
> Also, I might have missed it, but I couldn't find a job posting for this position either on this list or on your website. That's immediately going to make it harder to find someone ;)
> 

 http://lists.lrug.org/htdig.cgi/chat-lrug.org/2011-October/006544.html - we have been looking for a while:)
Plus numerous other job boards

We don't always mention the company name, and decided not to have it on the company site for certain good business reasons.  

> Have you tried the other UKRUGs, e.g. NWRUG, SCOTRUG?

I've spoken to some of the NWRUG guys in the past.  I guess if we're outsourcing we might as well include Scotland :)

> 
> S
> 
> On 5 Jan 2012, at 13:30, Satish N Kota wrote:
> 
>> Hi Rob,
>> 
>> I could be of help to you... We are known as Heurion a.k.a Rails detectives
>> (www.railsdetectives.com) and we have built Ruby on Rails based systems for
>> last 5 years. We are based in Bangalore, India.
>> 
>> Also I would like to mention that I setup a company in UK (company no.
>> 7244315) but it has become a liability to me rather than advantage and hence
>> closing it down... but still it exists as a company and we are paying taxes
>> :(
>> 
>> Additionally you could also take a look at our opensource projects
>> www.rlingcms.com and http://github.com/heurionconsulting 
>> 
>> Let me know if I can execute the project for you. I can also give you
>> references of successfully executing RoR projects for UK clients.  
>> 
>> P.S: Whenever I am in London, I attend LRUG meetings...But currently I am in
>> India.
>> 
>> Thanks and Regards
>> Satish Kota
>> Director, Heurion
>> Mobile: +91 98862 03255
>> Email: satishkota at heurionconsulting.com
>> IM: kotasatish (Skype), heurionconsulting (GTalk / Yahoo) Linked In:
>> http://uk.linkedin.com/in/satishkota 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: chat-bounces at lists.lrug.org [mailto:chat-bounces at lists.lrug.org] On
>> Behalf Of Rob Anderson
>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 3:22 PM
>> To: chat at lists.lrug.org
>> Subject: [LRUG] Outsourcing
>> 
>> Hello LRUG
>> 
>> We've been trying to recruit for a permanent Rails position for a while now,
>> and it isn't going well.  Judging from the number of job posts on this
>> board, we're not alone in this.
>> 
>> So, very reluctantly, I'm considering outsourcing the role, probably to
>> India.  Does anyone have any experience with this / advice to offer?
>> 
>> Our constraints:
>> 
>> - we're a financial services company, so trust is a big issue
>> - we have a large and expanding code base, so there is an upfront investment
>> in time before anyone can really contribute properly.  So we're looking for
>> a long term relationship.
>> 
>> I'll be at the LRUG meeting on Monday - look forward to seeing you all
>> there.
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> PS We've taken a long hard look at the recruitment agency route, and it's
>> not for us.  So please, don't contact me if you are recruiter.  Thanks!
>> 
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