[LRUG] [JOBS] Required: Rails craftsperson

Bryan Cole brycole at gmail.com
Thu Mar 25 11:15:30 PDT 2021 

Since Sam is making popcorn... I'll add my 2 cents.

This is very common practice in the United States too.  The pay in San
Francisco is significantly higher than in other areas.  The downside is
cost of living is 10x more expensive. But I seriously doubt higher pay is
an incentive to move to these areas... Instead, people are more likely
to move to these areas because of jobs, opportunities, etc..

The higher pay is a bit of consolation... they don't want their employees
to be homeless after all. (Not even kidding.)

I actually find the reverse of this situation way more fascinating. There
are cities/areas where the developer salary is x times higher then the cost
of living. For example, I had a friend working in Raleigh North Carolina
who was being paid $80,000 as a software developer and bought a house for
$250,000.   Compare this to San Francisco where you might make $150,000 but
a house will cost $1.5million.

These areas are the real jewels in my humble opinion!


On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:00 PM Sam Livingston-Gray <geeksam at gmail.com>
wrote:

> [Ah, sorry, messages just arrived out of order.  Carry on; I'll make
> popcorn.]
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 10:35 AM Sam Livingston-Gray <geeksam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> [This appears to be a reply to an off-list message, which seems
>> questionable?]
>>
>> Anyway, a perspective from a few years back that I still find useful:
>> https://ernie.io/2015/12/05/market-rate-is-for-lobsters/
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 10:21 AM Pablo Dejuan Calzolari <
>> pablo.dejuan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would be careful with this path of reasoning, supporting the answer
>>> based on because other people do it, so it should be OK.
>>> Sometimes the answer is just straight-forward, example because you can
>>> pay less. People in some areas to take up work for less than people in
>>> London because they may have less offers around. May not be about cost of
>>> living but about market expectations.
>>> Regards,
>>> Pablo
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 3:26 PM Ed James <ed.james.spam at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It’s standard practice across a number of industries, at least in the
>>>> UK.
>>>>
>>>> Even the NHS do this:
>>>> https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-reward/nhs-terms-and-conditions-of-service---agenda-for-change/pay-scales/including-hcas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Ed James
>>>> I will respect your spam <ed.james.spam at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> On 25 Mar 2021, at 13:20, Edmond Lepedus <ed.lepedus at googlemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rafik,
>>>>
>>>> I don’t think it can be that, since other, more expensive cities aren’t
>>>> singled out e.g. Zurich, New York,  Tokyo etc, or even Oxford, Cambridge,
>>>> Bath etc where some areas are more expensive than parts of London.
>>>>
>>>> More importantly, paying people more just because they live in a more
>>>> expensive area introduces perverse incentives to move to said areas and
>>>> exacerbates the very problem it would seem to be tackling. It would also be
>>>> discriminatory towards all sorts of people who, perhaps through no fault of
>>>> their own e.g. family situation, economic circumstances etc aren’t able to
>>>> live in the anointed region.
>>>>
>>>> I’m sure an employer would like to recognise and reward people based on
>>>> the value of their contributions, and allow them to make their own
>>>> tradeoffs between location and cost of living.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> On 25 Mar 2021, at 12:32, Rafik DALI <rfkdali at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Edmond,
>>>>
>>>> I think it's more about cost of life in London.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Rafik
>>>>
>>>> Le jeu. 25 mars 2021 à 12:06, Edmond Lepedus <ed.lepedus at googlemail.com>
>>>> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Olly,
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s interesting that your salary structure includes a premium for
>>>>> people in London. Do you find they are more productive than developers
>>>>> elsewhere in the country/world?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25 Mar 2021, at 09:04, Olly Headey <olly at freeagent.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> p.s. I should have added. We're looking for mid-level people and
>>>>> above. Mid-level salaries go up to £50k (60k in inner London) and
>>>>> Senior-Staff salaries go up to £80k (£96k with inner London weighting, £92k
>>>>> for outer London). We do also have a Principal level which pays more but
>>>>> tbh that's a pretty high bar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also: no recruiters plz.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 09:01, Olly Headey <olly at freeagent.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi LRUG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't posted a job for a while, I hope you're all well 😊.  We're
>>>>>> creating a new, small team of Rails craftspeople, and I thought people here
>>>>>> might be interested (or know people who are interested!). A bit of context
>>>>>> first...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FreeAgent is a Ruby on Rails application (running Rails 6.1, Ruby 3)
>>>>>> that has been serving happy customers since 2007. We have 110,000+
>>>>>> customers. Over the years we have seen a number of approaches to our
>>>>>> front-end code, from the early days of Prototype.js, through to jQuery, a
>>>>>> bit of React once-upon-a-time and, latterly, Stimulus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the Rails front-end ecosystem has entered a new era of
>>>>>> maturity and we want our new "Front-end Architecture" team to help us
>>>>>> consolidate our front-end tech around modern Rails standards – ES6,
>>>>>> Webpacker, Stimulus and Hotwire – while working closely with our Design
>>>>>> System team on our home-grown design system, FreeStyle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The team will focus on things like removing jQuery (in the first
>>>>>> instance), while crafting our many views and controllers to take advantage
>>>>>> of Turbo where it can help, write beautifully minimal Stimulus controllers
>>>>>> (and, to be honest, removing all JS where possible!), writing semantic
>>>>>> markup and helping to integrate new components from FreeStyle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is a rewarding role made for Rails craftspeople.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're interested, please drop me a line (olly at freeagent.com).
>>>>>> Happy to chat! Thanks a lot :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Olly
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Olly Headey
>>>>>> Co-founder and CTO, FreeAgent
>>>>>> @lylo <https://twitter.com/lylo>
>>>>>>
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